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You are correct in that "change" has gotten the United States to where it is today. I have not seen Obama's website because his rhetoric tells me that he is going to give us more of what we have put up with for the last 70 odd years and not anything new or changed. He promises us the world, but does not tell us how he plans to deliver his promises. If he were to attempt to deliver on his promises the cost would be astronomical.
MAY GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

I've stepped back from the blogoshere for a bit because, as bilge rat said, it was all getting a bit much.

I actually went ice fishing in the Rangely lakes region of Maine. Talk about a restorative experience. As a lover of the tropics, if anyone had told me I would enjoy spending five days sitting on a frozen lake fishing and five nights in a rustic cabin heated only by wood, I'd have said they were nuts.

But I enjoyed both, immensely.

Mr. Johnson, you are absolutely right that America's ability to adapt to and implement huge changes is a long standing virtue that we can all take pride in.

That said, let's not forget that ability, given the beauty and genious of the system our Founding Fathers created, has often come amid great struggle and hardship.

The vile institution of slavery would never have been abolished if Abraham Lincoln had not had the courage he did.

I have old photographs that my grandfather Stevens took
of desperate men milling about Essex Street in Lawrence selling pencils and apples in the early 1930's, anything to generate a dime.

Those men selling aples and pencils only got back on their feet when the government stepped in and put them to work building and repairing the national infrastructure we all take for granted today.

Today, that infrastructure is again in horrific disrepair.

And, much like when my grandfather Stevens photographed those men on Essex Street 70 + years ago, many, many people are desperate for a job.
Why not put them to work repairing our broken, but all important infrastructure?

Today's " middle class", something you Mr. Johnson and Mr. Carlson and I can claim membership in thanks largely to our parents, would not exist if, after brave American men and women returned from fighting fascism if the GOVERNMENT had not stepped in and offered a "welfare" program known as the GI Bill.

Mr. Johnson and Mr. carlson, I realize government is not the answer to all our nation's problems, but neither is it the CAUSE of all our nation's problems.
Why can't either of you see and admit that reality?




Many people of my parents' generation, the generation Tom Brokaw describes as the nation's "greatest generation" would never have been able to create this country's middle class if it had not been for GOVERNMENT programs like the GI Bill that allowed brave, blue collar, working class Americans who helped defeat fascism an opportunity to get an education.

I interpreted Mr. Johnson's point to mean that there are plenty of opportunities for anyone who wishes to take advantage of them. It isn't easy, however, and it takes perserverance and hard work. Which in todays society it seems many people are lacking.

I applaud the ancestors of Mr. Obama and him as well for taking full advantage of the opportunities offered them. But the sense of entitlement that so many people have is nauseating. Mr. Obama should be encouraging people to follow the same path as his ancestors which is work hard and success is soon to follow.

Unfortunately, you can't force people to work, Michael. I understand exactly what you're saying, though. But the times were different as well as the mentality of society back then. People were happy to have a job, no matter what it is they were doing for work. There was no welfare system to fall back on. Your idea may work today only if the welfare programs are taken away.

I have no problem with the G.I. bill. People who fought and honorably served their country should be entitled to perks. Several close friends of ours have benefitted from the G.I. bill throughout the years. But it is the people who want to contribute nothing to society but expect everything in return that really galls me. The victim mentality encourages nothing except bitterness and laziness.

The Rangely lakes area is beautiful, Michael, although I haven't been up there in years. My grandfather used to go ice fishing every winter, he loved it.....I'll stick to skiing!! A nice, warm ski lodge and hot chocolate are only a ski run away!! :-)

Hey, BR
I wish I could still ski but I blew the right knee out at killington about twelve years ago and the skiing days came to an end.
I've been think about what you said about people coming here looking to get all they can and not wanting to give anything in return.
I know those people exist. I saw my share in the old social work days more than a few were native born.
But I also saw many more people who were just in need of a little help as they struggled to get on their feet.
In the Newburyport Daily News a few weeks ago there was a very nasty letter from a man in Salisbury who was railing about immigration.
He made all these wild statements about 85 public hospitals in california being forced to close as "direct result" of the high cost of uncompensated care provided to illegal aliens.
I went on line and found out that was not true.
I found a 2006 GAO report that showed public and county hospitals in southwest border regions are indeed closing at an alarming rate due to to the costs of uncompensated care.
But, rather than the phenomenon being the "direct result" of illegal immigrants, it turns out illegal immigrants only accounted for 25% of the expenses from uncompensated care, it's the fact that 75% of the expenses associated with uncompensated care come from American citizens and LEGAL immigrants not having any health insurance.
I also know, after nearly a decade living a kind of migrant lifestyle myself where I spend six maybe eight months a year in Costa Rica and the other time here working iin the restaurant business, I know some of the hardest working people I've met are immigrants from Latin america, whether they're here legally or not.
I know the system is a mess and they should go through proper channels, but some of the vilification that goes on is just over the top. And I'm not referring to you.
It's all very complicated but I know that most of the immigrants I've met in the restaurant biz over the last ten years or so are not here looking for something for nothing. They work hard trying to improve their lives and the lives of their families.
I just needed to get that off my chest.
Stay warm in the storm!

I will state, yet again, what I have said in previous posts.

I SUPPORT LEGAL IMMIGRATION.
I DO NOT SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

I understand and sympathize for people who want to come here and make a better life for themselves and their families. However, that does not mean they should be allowed to break the law of the very country and citizens they are asking for help.

Why is that so difficult for some to comprehend? That question was not directed at you, Michael. You stated above you agree that immigrants should follow legal channels.

Simply because so many illegals have managed to evade the law doesn't mean they should be given carte blanche to all the opportunities our country offers it's LEGAL citizens. Laws have been broken and penalties should follow.

According to Mr. Johnson, Mr. Obama's father attended the University of Hawaii on a scholarship, which means he was allowed to come to this country to study, legally. He followed the rules. I would be curious to know if Mr. Obama's father followed the U.S. immigration laws that led to his eventual citizenship. I will hazard a guess that he did.

What other "change" could Mr. Obama being looking for other than total amnesty for illegals?

Here are some interesting statistics taken from an article published by Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). They are a national, non-profit, public information organization who are regularly consulted to provide their research and findings to the federal government as well as academia.

The National Academy of Sciences found that the net fiscal drain on American taxpayers is between $166 and $226 a year per native household. Even studies claiming some modest overall gain for the economy from immigration ($1 to $10 billion a year) have found that it is outweighed by the fiscal cost ($15 to $20 billion a year) to native taxpayers.

The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually—enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.

Immigration is a net drain on the economy; corporate interests reap the benefits of cheap labor, while taxpayers pay the infrastructural cost.

California taxpayers currently pay $743.3 million annually to house, feed, and provide medical care to an estimated 18,000 criminal illegal immigrants, as well as to provide parole services to an additional 5,700 individuals.

Hispanic and black Americans were hurt most by the influx of foreign-born workers, says a report by Harvard University's George Borjas, considered a leading authority on the impact of immigration.

80% of cocaine and 50% of heroin in the U.S. is smuggled across the border by Mexican nationals.

Medical service for Americans in affected communities is being severely damaged as hospitals absorb more than $200 million in unreimbursed costs. Some emergency rooms have shut down because they cannot afford to stay open. Local tax-paying Americans are either denied medical care or have to wait in long lines for service as the illegals flood the facilities. In California, the losses are calculated to be about $79 million, with $74 million in Texas, $31 million in Arizona, and $6 million in New Mexico."

Shall I continue?

BR, I firmly believe immigrants, wherever they're coming from, should go through the proper channels.
But why aren't people like yourself as angry at the slimy American employers who use illegal immigrants because doing so frees them up from having to pay into any kind of Social Security, unemployment, or health care benefits system for those employees, thus saving the employers zillions of dollars?
Ironically, with all the GOP's ranting and raving about immigration, it is some of the GOP's biggest donors in california and the Southwest, especially in the agricultural and meat packing industries, that are the biggest beneficiaries of this admittedly very screwed up immigration system with which the country is now dealing.
Go figure!!!

Michael, I think that businesses who employ illegals SHOULD be punished. I agree with you on that point 100%.
I don't feel the use of illegals in the agriculture and meat packing industries keeps the cost down all that much for the consumer, either. I shop at Market Basket every weekend and the majority of the produce is imported, expensive, and substandard. When local produce is in season, I hit the local farmers markets because the quality is so much better and I like to support the local farmers.

Unfortunately, we have no local butcher shops. Yes, there are "butcher shops", but no local suppliers, at least none that I know of.

I buy more seafood than meat, and I shop at the local fish monger or directly off the boats at the dock. I never buy seafood from the supermarket.
The fishing industry employs a lot of illegals also, mainly in the larger fleets. The majority of the little guys can't even afford to pay for illegal help thanks to all the government regulations, quotas, and high fuel prices....
But that's a topic for another day....

hey Michael, we agree on something else! :-)

Who'd a thunk it my friend?
This, with all the challenges we're currently facing, is still the best damned country on the planet because you, me, Mr. Carlson and, yes, even Uncle Bunky, are free to express our differing opinions in a forum like this without fear of government retribution, at least not yet anyway.

and the best part of it all is, spring is less than four weeks away!

Once again Michael, you are correct!

I also like the fact that the majority of the discussions have remained just that, discussions, not like the venom filled, knee jerk rants that are found on so many other forums. Other than a mild troll infestation a couple of weeks back, this forum has been fun.

Don't forget the April Fools day snow storm we had a few years back. Two days prior was Easter Sunday and it was so warm we went to the beach! Calendar spring be damned!
(just kidding)

Happy Thursday, All!
:-)

From Google-
troll:A troll is a user of a newsgroup, forum or message board that posts messages with the intent of inciting an argument or flame-war (as per Bilge Rat, Feb 11 8:34am)

Was this the intent of your last post?

Welcome back, Seamus.

The intent of my last post was in response to the prior post.

And, no, I wasn't referring to you as the troll.

;-)

Oh seamus, lighten up a bit.
I disagree with bilge rat most all the time, but I respect his point of view and, as much as I might hate to admit it, he's actually forced me to look at things in ways I'd not done before.
It's called growth, it's called having the ability to change, and learn something from people with whom you might disagree.
My late mom would call it "maturity:.
I guess I'm just fed up with ideological rigidity, whether it comes from the left or the right.
Here's a case in point.
I disagree with John McCain on almost every issue, except one - Iraq.
I opposed the Iraq invasion from the very beginning. I never understood why the Bushies so willingly dropped the legitimate ball in Afghanistan to pursue their march of folly in Iraq.
Sure, Saddam was a vile dictator who terrorized anyone who dared to challenge him politically, but so is Hosni Mubarak of Egypt and he ranks in the top five of US economic and military aid recipients.
The Iraq invasion never should have happened, it opened a regional power vacuum and Pandora's Box that's destabilized everything from Palestine to Pakistan.
But American troops are not coming home ANY time soon. In fact, given how vital the oil reserves of the Persian Gulf, and the soon to be tapped natural gas reserves of So. West Asia are to our way of life here, given our insatiable appetite for energy and unwillingness to make any changes in lifestyle at home, my hunch is the US troop presence in the region is going to grow substantially in the next few years.
The Bushies created a dangerous power vacuum when they invaded Iraq, and a precipitous withdrawal of those troops now would make a very bad situation ten times worse.
That's why I am increasingly believing it's time to get real, face reality, and really 'support' the brave Americans who volunteered to serve their country by bringing back the draft and making everyone share in this horrible burden the Bushies inflicted upon us.
And to think, I am a liberal Democrat!

Thanks, Michael.
I, too, have looked at issues from different perspectives thanks to your information.
I was ambivalent about sending troops into Iraq myself, but as you pointed out above now that we're there we really have no other choice but to stay there.
I heard something ironically funny last night regarding oil exploration and drilling in the Anwar province. Back in approximately 2000,2001 when the option of drilling in Anwar was being debated, one of the arguments against it was the oil wouldn't be available until 2008....
I thought about that while filling my gas tank this morning at $3.05 a gallon! It gave me a chuckle this morning....
hey, what are ya gonna do, right???
Have a great Friday!
:-)

OK, lighten up, I'll try. Just don't refer to me a s a troll, a leprechaun if you like but not a teroll.

There is one exception to the lightening up though, I can not be light about the mess that we are in in the Middle East. So many lives wasted and for what?

Really what was the Iraq was about in the end.? Anyone?

Keeping troops there in the end is a waste of time and further life, check your history books, where it can civil war will break out, it will take alot more than US nation building to patch things up between the Sunni and Shia, not to mention the Kurds and Turks.

What did the last US soldier in Vietnam die for?

Seamus, I never referred to you as either a troll or a leprechaun.

My "lighten up" advice came from a firm belief that, even though this reckless invasion of Iraq should never have happened, the bottom line is we're now stuck.

When the Bushies took their eyes off the legitimate prize in Afghanistan to pursue this march of folly in Iraq on behalf of Halliburton, they basically sentenced the US to an open ended commitment that we cannot walk away from.

Colin Powell has called the bogus evidence he presented at the UN to justify bonny Prince George, big Dick Cheney, and Herr Rumsfeld's war in Iraq an "indelible stain" on his career and reputation.

None of this should have happened but, in the wake of 9-11, the Vietnam draft dodging, chicken hawk, neo-cons who dominate the Bush administration manipulated America's fears to advance an agenda that has diminished our civil liberties at home and our country's reputation abroad.

We can't walk away. To do so would open a regional power vacuum that would be 10 times more dangerous than the one the Bushies opened when they lied to us about why invading Iraq was such a necessity.

I don't know what the answer is, but we are looking at a decades long occupation and a trillion dollar war that should never have been launched in the first place.

That's why I say, "Bring back the draft". Make every American between the ages of 18 and 35 duty bound to clean up this mess the Bushies created so Americans can drive Range Rovers, Denalis, and 16 valve foreign sedans.

Good thing I'm not running for office, I wouldn't stand a chance!

Seamus,

Neither Michael or myself were referring to you as the troll.
There were some posts on a couple of the other threads from some freak using profanity and obscenities.

Interesting post. I have made a twitter post about this. Hope others find it as interesting as I did.