RallyNorth.net: High School Sports - Merrimack Valley and Southern NH

Loved hearing about David's Warriors playing all the way to the end against Brocton----there's no quit on Shawsheen Rd, as usual---wished I'd seen it.

I did see the Raiders do kind of the same thing Saturday--clearly tired and just not ready after the Haverhill game, the Raiders were sluggish at the outset---Am Her put it into neutral after 3 quarters and up by 28 (but the AH coach kept his same rotation in though, didn't he?)--the next thing the Floridians know,the lead was down to 5 and Carson's got an open 3 after hitting 2 or 3 in a row--not this time---so close.

In the MVC,all the games are 32 miutes long and you'd better be ready to play, AHS, CCHS, Lowell and, now it looks like, Haverhill for all 32 of them.

Best player ever? We need an objective standard not just opinion and anecdotal evidence.

Hector, it's impossible to measure players against each other when they played 20 years apart or even 10, never mind 50 or 60!! You have to measure players against their competion at the time they played--in other words, to be the "best ever" you have to tell me who you beat and how many times you beat them--what did Mr. "best ever's" teams do?.

So, in looking at the stars and the greats, whatever the sport, you always have to know whether or not the star's team won and what they actually won. You can average 20 a game but if you're 10-10 at the end--sorry--you can put up the big power numbers for the Texas Rangers but since it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter---Brett throws 5700 completions in 17 years--one SB champioship!

Nope, show me what you won.

In local HS hoops--there's the Xmas tournament, there's a conference championship, there's the Tsongas, the Garden and the Centrum. So---what if we give you 1 point for the XT, 2 points for a conf. champ., 3 points for winning at the Tsongas and so on. if you accept that scoring system and if you accept that the 1999 Riders were Scott H's team then, I think that makes Scott H, the Man and the "best ever". Marquis Victor comes in a close second because of the 2002 state final that was lost in the final seconds to Amherst Regional--that 2002 team was clearly his.. Yup, Carson was a key contributor in the 08 Raider run but he wasn't the go to guy--so the jury's still out. (By the way, in his first 2 years , Carson has finished extremely strong--some veteran observers picked up on a leadership thing blossoming on Friday night and again on Saturday afternoon--if so, forget it!).

So is Scott the best ever form these parts? Do you think?--no!!

You can go back to the beginning of time and you have only one guy you could possibly the best evr.

You're going to have to look to Don Tremplay as the best player ever--he of the 1957 Raiders---the best team ever from the GL area --the team of the greatest accomplishment---a team with a 27-1 record that will never be and can never be matched. It was his team.

Conference champion, New England Catholic Tournament champion and, after beating the NH and VT state champs was 5 seconds away from beating the CT state champ and the New England championship--the latter two tounaments, sadly having faded away. Chicago Herald All-American. All state, all-everything.

I can hear the groaning---(remember---ageism is a sin and, in some jurisdictions, even a crime) and, yes, on his fastest day ,Donnie would come in last in a footrace with any 2009 varsity player--if that race were to take place in 2009--and, yes, Carson and a hundred other gys would bat his patented shot into the rafters every time--as long as Don took it in 2009. But he didn't--he took it in 1957--and he beat everybody---and just because you have to be a minimum of 51 years old to have seen him play,well--it doesn't change a thing---that was the team that beat everyone, well ,almost everyone-- (Weaver of Hartford w Long John Sullivan stealing and in-bounds pass under Central's own basket w 5 seconds left and hurling it the length of the court to Johnny Egan who gets fouled and sunk 'em both sending it into overtime and a Central disaster).

Now i'm looking for an objective standard here, Hector. If you have a better one, then let's use your's.

Anyway, what a lot of fun this season has been and we still have 6 weeks to go until tourney time.

Thanks for caring so much about your craft and for the kids who play the games.

I love the mention of Tremblay, and being a Central grad I heard all the stories of the great old days.
My only question is, was he a nationally-recognized talent like a Carson (18 scholarship offers and rising from coast to coast, BC to Stanford) or as Hazelton was as a McDonald's All American?
Gary McClain of Methuen went on to win a national title at Villanova.
Ted Kelley captained BC.
Did any of those older day guys, 50s and 60s, go on to do things at the bigtime college level?

Please don't leave Danny Cargill off your all-time team. Dan's still the career scoring leader at Lawrence High with over 1600 points, well before the advent of the 3 point line. Would have been a 2000 point guy back in the mid-70s, a feat that was much tougher without the treys and the extended tournament schedules. Never had the big-name talent around him to carry the Lancers to a title, but nobody in this area could hit from every spot on the floor like DC.

Loved Danny.

Don't forget Tommy McLaughlin and Wilkens Victor

Hector--you're tweaking this a bit--you're now introducing post-HS accomplishments as a criterion. That's fair. Rigo had the HS acoompl,shments, that's for sure and he was, as you pointed out, a role player on a final four UMass team--(taking a fake charge vs St Joe's to preserve UM's undefeated record, was huge). Parent and Bobby also won a nat'l champioship, albeit D 2.

Tell me what Ted Kelley did at BC besides being elected captain ( a great honor for a great guy)

Is it true Scott was named a Mac All American because the game was in Boston--the home town attendance booster? How many Mac All-Americans are named? A lot, I think--30?

McClain--now that's tough to beat--a point guard on a NCAA champ--that's the best--except for an NBA champ, I guess--and we don't have any of those.

Don T's like of height and speed caught up to him at UMass--intersetingly, the strengths he displayed as a HS bb star manifested themselves in lacrosse where he made all-East for a good UMass team (savvy, great feel for what was needed and when it was needed, tremendous sports IQ, a winner--like Niall Murphy, Glen Verrette, Wilkins Victor, Biffer Moynihan--"get on my back and I'll carry you home some how--some way").

By the way, Hector,--those of us who have loved watching Billy Marsden have often wondered what a Div 1 guard would look like if the great Bill is only a D 3 guard--well we found out on Saturday, didn't we? Lightening quick strokes from Taylor and Boynton and suddenly Billy's release looked like it was in slow motion in comparison--still you can't measure heart--and Billy's got tons, doesn't he?

Later, I'll tell you of another great local player--he also was a key ingredient on a national champion college team--he also got dozens of offers --including Duke! Move over McClain--I think my guy can beat McClain on HS accomplishments (my criterion) and almost match him on total caeer accomplishments (Hector's criterion)--I'm going to let you stew a bit on this one, Hector--let's see if you can come up w this one--hint--where are Joe Murphy and Max Bishop when you need them?

Gotta get to work.

Lots of fun, Hector.

If I recall, Hazelton missed a good chunk of his senior year, including the state tourney due to injury. McLaughlin missed his entire senior season. Shame because he had the whole package, a 6'5" Vetrano. But Hazelton took over games and was simply un-coverable. Lit up a very good B-R team in the Garden like no other kid I've seen in a tourney game. The state title game vs. Fingleton is legendary, but he had a good supporting cast. Didn't see Carson over the weekend but if he's playing with urgency look out! Curious that the largest school in the area, by far and for a long time, can't get a single kid mentioned in the entire discussion.

Great points and good perspective.
McLaughlin, M Victor, and Cargill all merit mention for sure...
Last night I saw Andover fall victim to the same problem that Central had Saturday.
Andover left it all out there against Brockton, went to Dracut last night and were down 20 before they knew what hit them - definition of trap game (remember Dracut upsetting Central a couple years ago too? Their coach Paquette is underrated!)
Word on the Andover side was that Connor Arnold was having surgery. We heard he was done. Then he showed up and scored 18 points and looked real good. But no other Andover player had anything in the tank except Jimmy Johnson. Brockton cooked them. They are Jeckyl and Hyde.
Lowell, with the Driscoll brothers and Mitchell kid moving in are jelling and I believe 9-2.
Everett, Lexington, Lynn English are the dangerous Div 1 teams up north outside the MVC. But any large school MVC could beat any of them on a given night.