RallyNorth.net: High School Sports – Merrimack Valley and Southern NH

“..it starts to look unfair….” It is unfair! A private school that can recruit the better players from any town will always have an advantage over a school that only can take players from their own town. They should be playing against other schools who are in the same situation.

Hector, interesting approach to the multi-sport athlete topic!Very insightful. I believe you should diversify and go up to Salem this Tuesday. Go Astros!!!!!

Fred,
I can only imagine what school you support. Your argument has been going on for decades, but let’s face it, the MVC is a much more attractive league with Central in it. They are a contender in basketball every year lately, but they have missed out on titles in recent years to Andover, Lowell, Lawrence, and Haverhill. In other sports, it is the same thing, as the MVC has it’s share of contenders in all sports every year. Nobody’s looking to toss Andover out of the MVC for their dominant girls swimming team or their tennis team that wins every year (look at the banner in the Dunn gym if you don’t believe me). Nobody wants to throw Lowell out of the league when they win the wrestling title every year. Truth be told, Central Catholic students pay over $10K per year to attend a school in the worst section of the poorest city in the state. The school has no on-campus facilities aside from the gym. Fred, ever been to Andover High School? They have a multi-sport field-turf facility, 3 baseball fields, tennis courts, and a fieldhouse. Central kids get on a bus every day to play their games and go to practice. Their academic workload far exceeds anything in public schools, and there is no “wink-wink” policy when a student-athlete is failing his/her courses. Every year there are good athletes who leave CCHS and return to the public school system for one reason or another. Your recruiting comment really irks me. Do you think that local high school coaches in all schools don’t know who’s out there in 8th grade prior to the kids getting into HS? Word gets around. One last thing Fred, do you think the Xmas tourney would really be better without Central? Ask the tournament director and the host school AD how the attendance would be affected by the absence of Central. Try to enjoy the game and remember that things go in cycles in high school sports, and no team runs the table every year.

Elvis,
While one could argue that private schools have the advantage of selecting the students they choose to educate and public schools can not do that, I did not and will not put down CC. I am well aware of what the students there have to contend with in all the aspects you mentioned. I would not disparage them or their school. While you make many good points about CC, I’m not sure how that supports your opposition to my comments. I’m sorry that my recruiting comment irked you but I don’t quite understand your point. I am fully aware that coaches are aware of what 8th graders are out there but only the private schools can go after any ones they choose to. Public school coaches can only coach the ones that will attend their high school. Perhaps I missed something in your comment? As far as attendance goes, I agree that they bring more people but I don’t see how that levels the playing field, which was my only point. You mention the success of Andover and others – my hats off to them! They go out and get coaches who develop players and parents to buy into what needs to be done to develop their children. But those kids are from their own town and they should only be competing against schools in the same situation. Any ways, I suspect that I’m not going to convince you and you’re not going to convince me, so we should agree politely to disagree.

Hector do you think that it is time for Bob Royce to finally fire the Pinkerton head coach each year his teams always has potential but just seem out coached. Pinkerton has a terrible offense, they have been running the same based princeton offense for years and it just is not working. Pinkerton is one of the most respected schools in NE and you think Bob Royce would like his basketball team to atleast contend for a championship this same guy has been running this program into the ground. I suggest you go to the second match up of Andover CC, and I’m from Derry, because I can guarantee Rosinskee will get out coached by EJ probabbly by his assistants. Pinkerton has the highest school size why only last yr did they just make it out of the 1st round. There needs to be a change

Carson Derosiers is the best player ever from Windham.
Billy Marsden is the best player ever from Pelham.
Tim Wheeler was the best player in his class in Lowell.
The list goes on and on.
Of course the playing field is not close to level.
But it is great having Central in the league.
Their kids and coach have class and do great stuff. It is not an indictment of them to say it is not competitively fair.
If they weren’t in the league, everyone would resent the advantages Andover kids have, relative to the other towns.

Hector;

Great job!
Some points re your article and Fred and Fib1106:

1–The “R” word–I remember a guy who offered to pay 10 grand to anyone who caught Central recruiting. I’d like to renew that offer. Fib–CD and Billy and Jimmy Z are all legacies who had older relatives who attended Central. Talk to the Wheeler family why they chose CC for Tim. The answers will be, like any other family, complex. But I guarantee that no recruiter showed up to their front door. I could hear his pitch; “We want a kid who has a lot of character, is a good student, and a fine boy–we don’t care that he can’t throw a pea into the Atlantic Ocean and that he’s raised being a role player to an art form—we just want him.” CC is not a wealthy school–yet it gives almost 2M dollars in financial aid to the “least favored”–About 1k from each parent who pays full tuition goes to the kids who require financial aid–they actually pay for their own kid and help educate another kid who badly needs finacial help. The Adalante and Lawrence Boys and Girls Club kids make up a portion of this group–maybe 20 or 25%. Of those kids maybe 10 or 15 are varsity athletes–maybe half play football or basketball. But 100% of them go on to college and succeed. The second best team in the MVC would be made up of the kids who play in the MVC who were turned down by CCHS–a lot of them are far better ball-players than Tim Wheeler, I’ll assure you. The third best team would be the kids who went to Central and for a lot of reasons, not always academic, don’t go there now. A lot of teams have them. In fact there was a situation last year when the transfer application of the best all-around athlete in one MVC school was turned down because of this person’s skill and the hard felings that would be generated–an unfair result for that kid. I well rememeber the cries of recruiting when Coach A won back to back Super Bowls in the 90′s and the laughs at the post season banquet when he introduced one of his prize “recruits”, a 160 lb middle guard who led the team in tackles and who won the Math Prize at graduation. Nope no recruiting–kids are accepted at Central for tons of reasons–the most common is for their demonstration of wanting to succeed academically, morally and as a person, which brings me to coaching.

2–if you were a good swimmer in the area who would you want to be coached by–Marilyn F, of course. You’d want Faze if you were a baller (altbough Ricky’s coming up on the outside, fast). These great coaches , and some other AHS coaches, are the beneficiaries of one of the state’s best youth athletic feeder systems. 8 th grade!!!! Faze knows who his future stars are in the 5 th grade!!!! Ask Marilyn about the Magnus Program and what it has done for her tremendous record. Hockey, wrestling, soccer, football–the list goes on. AHS enjoys an enormous advantage over CCHS in this regard as do other public schools–no problem–kids are very much entitled to these opportunities–it’s good for them and their communities. (By the way, it’s a crime that the City of Lawrence doesn’t have these programs and let’s not even talk about their @#$% drop our rate). Anyway, Fred, I think you’ll agree that if you play football w the same kids for 3, 4 5 years BEFORE you attend high school that you’ll have an advantage over me from East Podunk who meets his teammates on day one of the 9 th grade. I wish that you AHS folks would get as riled over the unparalelled success of our 200 member track teams made up of BB, hockey and baseball “rejects”–talk about coaching. but anyway…

3–Fred, I apologize for the length of this–that caffeine will do it every time–but CCHS doesn’t “go after anyone
(it chooses)” as you allege–quite the contrary–they come to Central, 3.5 of them for every seat–they come for academic opportunity, they come for the family atmosphere, they come because their dads went there, they come because their folks will kill them if they don’t, they come to escape failing school systems, they come because of the spirit, they come because they know they will go to college and, yup, some come because they get to play for some of the best coaches around–just like some kids go the wionderful school, that is Andover.

So, Fred, rather that diminish Central’s teriific achievement and its luck in having a 6’10” kid whose dad went there 30 years ago, maybe it would be better to concentrate on the magnificent record of David Fazio (yup, a Raider Forever) and his kids who fought a more skilled and much taller team to the death–as they always do.

And oh, Fred, one more thing–one Central star had a badly jammed thumb on Friday night which should be better for Tuesday night–Andover-Central–this is what sports are all about–thanks Hector.

choose

Enough! I’m so sick of this conversation that seems to be recycled year in and year out. As usual, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle here. I am not a Central fan, but I can’t imagine the MVC without them. Is it always fair? Of course not. What is? In every league, in every sport, there are teams with advantages. Facilities, enrollment, school choice, coaches in the gray areas, METCO, repeating 8th graders, the list goes on and on. The idea of high school sports is to be a part of their education, to help them when they hit the real world, a place that is not always known for its fairness. We should help kids understand it and be ready to deal with it, not learn how to make excuses and learn to find things to blame it on. Bottom line in this specific case: Ricky Nault is not calling or writing 8th graders to convince them to come. For one thing, he doesn’t really have to at this point: They’re a desirable destination. And he’s a stand up guy who follows the rules. So they are not violating anything- end of story.

Are there Central alums and fans who tell 8th graders and their families about the benefits of the school and program? Of course there are- And that’s OK. They’ve had a good experience and want to share it, which is not against the rules. And it’s not even against the rules for someone like Vinny Pastore, who’s not a part of the coaching staff, to be an “advocate” of CC’s basketball team (although you better be sure he’s not part of that $10K guarantee, because you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think he has over time actively encouraged some of the regions best 8th graders to go to Central, even if he and Ricky don’t see eye to eye on everything.) But Leo, its clearly a competitive advantage to be able to pull kids from a wide area, and it kills me when people suggest otherwise. Try a little exercise: Go through the list of recent sectional and state champions in basketball for Divisions 1, 2, and 3 and find how many schools are public schools that do not use school choice or METCO. The % is staggeringly low compared to the number of schools in question. Just ask anyone who went to watch the games in the Garden last year. The complaints we’ve heard here are the same as the people in the south region have about BC High and CM, and the people in the central region have about St. John’s Shrewsbury and Holy Name. Oh, and they’re the same complaints people had about Charlestown, South Boston, and East Boston during their primes because kids from all over the city of Boston could choose to go to their schools. Again, it’s not always fair, but that’s OK. All of these schools are in compliance with what the MIAA allows. The truth is that, while Leo made comparisons like football and swimming, basketball is the high school sport in which one or two impact kids can make the most difference. There’s a reason why states like New York and New Jersey, where the level of basketball is much, much higher than here in New England, keep the parochial schools and public schools in separate divisions until the end. It’s not a level playing field, so they don’t try to make a farce of it like the MIAA does. There’s no sense moaning and groaning about it- Those are the rules. Forget Central’s “recruiting”…if people want to complain about anyone, the bureaucracy and red-tape machine that is the MIAA should be a rich target we can all agree on!

The bottom line is that this was a great tournament filled with some excellent kids and players from all 8 schools. Central is head and shoulders (literally) above the other teams, but that’s what will make it so memorable if someone knocks them off. At most, only one of these kids (Carson) will ever maybe be able to consider playing basketball for a living, so let’s stop treating this like it’s life or death. Celebrate the kids, the plays, the great moments, and coaches (which this tournament is full of- the coaches of the 7th and 8th place teams at Greater Lawrence and NA are excellent men and mentors who I’d be as proud coaching my sons as Faz and Ricky). Enjoy attending the games and the debates over teams, programs, etc. But PLEASE- Enough with the “recruiting” accusations and holier-than-thou defensiveness! Including my own.

First and foremost, a Thanks to Hector for his enthusiastic writing style to promote local high school sports. Lawrence High is clearly a better venue than both NA and Merrimack College. And kudos to Coach Fazio, whose kids battle and battle and battle. I’ve attended the Christmas Tourney for 14 years which makes me a virtual rookie, but I have yet to hear the following: “What a great tournament. It would be so much better if Central weren’t here.” Fred, you make the mistake that many others make. Specifically, that because Central accepts kids from many towns, they must “recruit” and have some sort of unfair advantage. The three points are not interchangeable. Central does have kids from many towns because they are a desirable educational destination for thousands of parents. They do not, and can not recruit. They are a school sought in the same manner that hundreds of Catholic schools are sought throughout the country. Do they have an “unfair” advantage? Only if it is acknowledged that most other schools have an “unfair” advantage due to a lack of academic requirements demanded by Central. I had the opportunity to visit with family and friends over the Christmas season in RI, CT, and NJ. Guess what? I was told that the reason Bishop Hendricken (RI) is so successful is due to “recruiting” (with no evidence), the reason Fairfield Prep (CT) is so successful is due to “recruiting” (with no evidence), and the reason Don Bosco and Bergen Catholic (NJ) are so successful is due to “recruiting” (with no evidence). It’s a national, tired, and broadly discredited argument. The playing field will be level when there are school vouchers, Central has it’s own ice rink, baseball field and football field, and all other MVC schools require what Central does academically. Does Pinkerton have an “unfair” advantage by virtue of having one of the largest enrollments in NE? Out of the MVC, Central plays SJP, Bishop Hendricken, and a FLA school in the Hall of Fame tourney. Does this satisfy Fred’s call for playing schools “…who are in the same situation”? Very good team, very well-coached. “Best ever”, Hector? Jury’s still out.

point that, because Central has kids from many towns, they must “recruit” and, therefore, have an “unfair… advantage”. You also note that Central should play “against other schools who are in the same situation”. I do not wish to belabor previous comments, but let’s be clear that Central plays it’s non-conference games against SJP, a school from FLA. in the Hall of Fame tourney, and Bishop Hendricken. Hence, the DO play schools in the same situation. Does Central does have kids from many towns? Yes. Does that imply that they recruit? No.

I don’t think any one wants Central out of the Christmas Tournament, thats not an issue. It is a non-league tournament and great for the area. The problem is the league. Times have changed! They do not belong in a Public School League. There is a league for them, it is called the Catholic Conference were teams have the same advantages as Central. They are the only Catholic School of it’s kind, in the Commonwealth, in a Public School league. Why? You would think that Central would want to compete against schools that have the same advantages, but they prefer to be the big fish beating up on teams that cannot compete due to the caliber of student athlete that is able to go to Central.
When is the last time Tewksbury beat Central in Hoop, 30 years? Dracut? Chelmsford? Billerica? and can they on a regular basis, compete? No. And if one of those towns lose a great student athlete to Central it is almost impossible for them to be successful. The league isn’t made up of Central, Andover and Lowell the other schools which are more severly affected always seem to get lost in the conversation. Any team in the coference could play them in a non-league game in any sport but most would chose not to for the same reason they don’t play Xaverian or BC High. It is not a level playing field.
Try to justify it any way you want but they do not belong in the league any longer. IT IS NOT FAIR! The Brewers can go to the National League and the whole NFL can be re-aligned but the world would stop rotating if Central left the MVC. They won’t leave or be kicked out for two reasons: the Central Mafia is to strong in the local communities. But more importantly I think Central enjoys beating up on the little guys. They are Mike Tyson.
I will defend any Central coach . I know they do not recruit. They don’t have to when the Lawrence Boys Club does it for them. If you think some of their athletes in the present and the past would have been accepted if they hadn’t played sports, your lying to yourself. When Hazelton was accepted there, his history in the two schools he previously attended was not so spectacular, academically or behaviorally, if he wasn’t a 6’8″ basketball star he never would have been accepted!
Here’s my biggest problem with Central just admit the truth. Admit what you are. But they never will, Cmon just be honest.
Last thing, stop comparing Central to the publics like they are MIT. THEY ARE NOT!!! You don’t even need a teaching certificate to teach at Central. Central might have some great teachers but if you think the best and brightest are going to Central Catholic to teach, earn catholic school pay and retirement, your mistaken. The students DO NOT have to take the MCAS and they don’t have to go to school for 180 days. Again, not the same playing field as the publics. If you think the AP classes and top level classes at most of the Publics are not comparable or in some cases I believe better, again, you are mistaken.
It is not 1975 any more. Times have changed. Central has a league that has perfect competition and similar academic expectations. THE CATHOLIC CONFERENCE.

Ok guys you made some pretty good points, I have to admit. I agree to drop the word recruit but you have to admit there is some “channeling” going on , perhaps by alumni? You still can’t convince me that it’s a level playing field.

Hector,
The pressures put on 3 sport athletes by coaches is what keeps the majority of 3 sport athletes limited to 1 sport and makes it nearly impossible for the athlete to compete in 3 seasons. Coaches (suggest strongly) that players work on their specific sport in the off-season rather than participate in another in-season sport. If you ask any coach, he or she is going to tell you that they support the 3 season athlete, but in truth, these are the same coaches telling these athletes that if they do not specialize, they will never be able to keep up with the 1 sport athlete. I am the parent of a 3 sport athlete who plays at the varsity level in all 3 sports but has been approached at one time or another by each coach suggesting he work in the “off season” to improve his skills. The conversation is always the same. “He could be so much better if he just worked on his skills in the off-season”. There is only one off-season when you are a 3 sport athlete: Summer.
These are the same coaches that forbid the athletes to even play a game of pick-up hoops or go skiing on a Sunday when they are in season, but want the athlete to play in off-season leagues while they are already playing another in-season sport that is not being coached by them. It is this that causes athlete burn-out.
Coaches have suggested more than once to quit the other sport or sports so they can reach their “Potential”.
I can promise you that this is not an isolated issue in a specific school. Talk to some of the one sport athletes and see what drove them to quit or not even partake in other sports. Speak with the 3 sport athlete and ask them the pressures they face from their coaches.
When I ask the question which sport he likes best, the answer is always: ” I love them all”.
My answer is always the same: Play Them All.

Central’s academics are absolutely no better than what you can get at any public school in the MVC. Don’t tell me that you have to be an accomplished student to be accepted into Central, because anyone can get in. It isn’t a university. I know students who were accepted as C-D students in middle school. And yes, Central sends the majority of their students on to college, but they aren’t all going to the Ivy League. Central is not Phillips Academy or Brooks. Colleges don’t look at Central Catholic students like they are a step ahead of public school kids, because the academic workload for a student who wants to attend college from a public high school is the exact same as Central’s. The only difference may be that colleges know that at public schools, the teachers at least have to be certified.

3 Sports athletes are great, and it’s great to be well rounded. But, look at Chelmsford. Most of our athletes play three sports. In football we are great cause it’s a numbers game. But, our other sports suffer. I used to be against specialization. But, I’d much rather play one sport very well, then be one more average player on an average team.

Friday Night Result

Lowell 72- Andover 65

Might want to re think those rankings of
“That said, the way the MVC stacks up, i’d have to rate them:
Central

Andover/Lawrence

and way back to everyone else.”

By the way, great story on the game by the Trib.